# \[Ask for Certifications\] stonersanta
**URL:** https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120
**Category:** ZetaB
**Created:** [6 January 2015 14:29 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120 "2015-01-06T14:29:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [6 January 2015 14:29 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/1 "2015-01-06T14:29:59Z")
Hello, I joined the test network, and I would like to have some certifications, so I know how to use the system and how it works.
References, [https://www.facebook.com/Droppen](https://www.facebook.com/Droppen) email is [konsta.gogoljuk@gmail.com](mailto:konsta.gogoljuk@gmail.com) number is +358415370389
- Is there a way to discredit a person who later is identified to have committed identity fraud?
- How much is the universial divident, when its it paid, and where do I get the initial funds to test around?
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### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [6 January 2015 16:31 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/3 "2015-01-06T16:31:04Z")
All so, couldn’t find any documentation on the API. I could all so help with the translations of the economic theory, but I don’t speak no french :smile:
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### Author:  [@cgeek](https://forum.duniter.org/u/cgeek)
#### Post date: [6 January 2015 18:09 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/4 "2015-01-06T18:09:06Z")
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> Is there a way to discredit a person who later is identified to have committed identity fraud?
Inform people they should no more sign him. This way, the person will loose his member status, and won’t receive a UD anymore.
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> How much is the universial divident, when its it paid, and where do I get the initial funds to test around?
[http://ucoin.twiced.fr](http://ucoin.twiced.fr)
About when:
> %Growth (c) 1% / 3.5 days
About how much:
> Universal Dividend (formula) UD t+1 = MAX ( UD t ; c \* Mt / Nt+1 )
> Universal Dividend (comput) UD t+1 = MAX ( 100.00 ZB ; 1% \* 6900 ZB / Nt+1 )
So typically, since N = 9 (or 10 if you join), we will still have 100 ZB for next UD. Actually, it will be this value for the next 8 months. Then, value will increase exponentially.
As you can see, UD is written every 3.5 days, precisely on Monday 11h20 p.m. and Friday 11h20 a.m.
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> All so, couldn’t find any documentation on the API
Right here: [duniter/doc/HTTP\_API.md at master · duniter/duniter · GitHub](https://github.com/ucoin-io/ucoin/blob/master/doc/HTTP_API.md)
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### Author:  [@Inso](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Inso)
#### Post date: [6 January 2015 18:37 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/5 "2015-01-06T18:37:15Z")
Which client do you use ?
Your uid is “stonersanta” right ?
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### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 08:43 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/6 "2015-01-07T08:43:56Z")
So signatures will have to be revoked from the user? There’s a way to unsign a person? What if the person that signed the person is a fraud or uncontactable?
> Universal Dividend (formula) UD t+1 = MAX ( UD t ; c \* Mt / Nt+1 )
> Universal Dividend (comput) UD t+1 = MAX ( 100.00 ZB ; 1% \* 6900 ZB / Nt+1 )
Help me break this down,
UD = “Universiol divident”
t = ?
c = ?
Mt = ?
Nt = ?
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### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 08:44 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/7 "2015-01-07T08:44:31Z")
I installed through npm, npm install vucoin so its the default version. Feature request: add ucoin -v command to see the version.
And yes, stonersanta is my uid
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### Author:  [@Inso](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Inso)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 10:08 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/8 "2015-01-07T10:08:47Z")
UD = universal dividend
t = time for the current UD
t+1 = time for the next UD
c = monetary mass growth
Mt = monetary mass at t
Nt = number of members in the community at t
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### Author:  [@Inso](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Inso)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 10:09 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/9 "2015-01-07T10:09:43Z")
Ok great :smile:
There is also the cutecoin client, waiting for testers ( [Cutecoin 0.7 released](http://forum.duniter.org/t/cutecoin-0-7-released/117) )
The 0.7.3 is going to be released tonight, fixing few bugs.
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### Author:  [@cgeek](https://forum.duniter.org/u/cgeek)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 11:08 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/10 "2015-01-07T11:08:08Z")
```
$ ucoin --version
0.23.5
```
And if you need help:
```
$ ucoin --help
```
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> So signatures will have to be revoked from the user?
A signature cannot be revoked. If you made it, propagate it and the signature gets written in the blockchain, then it’s too late. However, a signature has an expiration date.
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> There’s a way to unsign a person?
You can deduce from previous paragraph: no! 👮
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> What if the person that signed the person is a fraud or uncontactable?
He is not a fraud: he was accepted in the system.
However, if **you** think he was a fraud, then you should alert other members and see who signed this fraud guy to alert both _them_ about this fraud identity, and _other members_ about its signatories too since they signed a fraudulent identity.
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### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 12:03 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/11 "2015-01-07T12:03:12Z")
So there’s no way to discredit a person once hes been accepted to the network, unless you wait for the signatures to expire? What if someone has 3 signed fraud accounts, and create 1000 more accounts and screw up the system? Just figuring out how waterproof is the system against basic income fraud.
I see theres a topic on this, problèmes des identités multiples / service de détection des fraudes cant read french though.
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### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 12:11 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/12 "2015-01-07T12:11:37Z")
> Universal Dividend (formula) UD t+1 = MAX ( UD t ; c \* Mt / Nt+1 )
> Universal Dividend (comput) UD t+1 = MAX ( 100.00 ZB ; 1% \* 6900 ZB / Nt+1 )
> UD = universal dividend
> t = time for the current UD
> t+1 = time for the next UD
> c = monetary mass growth
> Mt = monetary mass at t
> Nt = number of members in the community at t
Couldn’t it be simplified to
> Universal Dividend (formula) UD t+1 = MAX ( UD t ; c \* Mt / Nt )
> Universal Dividend (comput) UD t+1 = MAX ( 100.00 ZB ; 1% \* 6900 ZB / Nt )
I dont get the Nt+1
So, basically, its 1% inflation that is given to all members, with a minimum of UD?
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### Author:  [@cgeek](https://forum.duniter.org/u/cgeek)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 13:27 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/13 "2015-01-07T13:27:37Z")
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> I dont get the Nt+1
It is: N(t+1), so N on next Dividend time. It is not known by advance.
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> So, basically, its 1% inflation that is given to all members, with a minimum of UD?
Yes, 1% every 3.5 days. Which roughly makes 9% per month. Not inflation, but new money.
Actually, 9.22% is the goal we should have for 1 year in a real free currency. But since we want to make a quick simulation, we simulate 1 year of money creation in 1 month.
> [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](#):
>
> What if someone has 3 signed fraud accounts, and create 1000 more accounts and screw up the system?
He would have to be at minimal distance from every other member to be able to do this. For example if we have a distance 3 max parameter, the fraudulent accounts would have to be at a distance 2 from any other member.
With little WoT, this is quite “easy” to do. But the bigger the WoT, the harder to fit distance rule.
But what is not easy in little WoT is to have a fraudulent identity, since people are very close to each other. Furthermore, a little WoT is likely to have a small currency power 🙂
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### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 13:55 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/14 "2015-01-07T13:55:01Z")
> Not inflation, but new money.
new money with no new users is inflation.
How is distance detected in the system? I mean, its quite important to have virtually unfraudable ID, since because of UD, the security of identification is as important as the security of the ledger.
---
### Author:  [@Konsta\_Gogoljuk](https://forum.duniter.org/u/Konsta_Gogoljuk)
#### Post date: [7 January 2015 13:58 UTC](https://forum.duniter.org/t/ask-for-certifications-stonersanta/120/15 "2015-01-07T13:58:24Z")
cgeek, could I talk to you in skype? skype: konsta.gogoljuk