Objection in the model of the web of trust of Ucoin

Archives Discussion
41

[quote=“demo, post:39, topic:764”]
I would like to ask the members of your community, what they believe the correct initial values of the ucoin software should be.[/quote]

There is not “our community”, because any “community” is a community(t) where future members(t+x) are not born. And so we don’t decide “initial values” for others, because our flow(t) = community(t+dt) - communidity(t), is not an imposition, but a choice for new members(t+dt) to analyse the rules, accept them and make proposition to join or not.

So in all those important points, bitcoin is ok, there is no obligation to join bitcoin for same reasons, and so bitcoin don’t impose us its own “community rules” (which are inferred by bitcoin money rules). The difference here, like vtexier explained it that free money rules are designed to be a symetry in space-time, and changing them will break the symmetry.

So no, there won’t be opportunity to change initial rules for one free money. But, like Inso explained too (you probably didn’t analyse his post), any members in the future will be able to fork as well the software, and fork the blockchain too. So what you call “a poll” will be possible thru fork. The difference here, is that this fork won’t be an obligation for those who agreed the rules and definitions initially to fork too, and there will be a separation between two “communities(t+dt)”, like a secession.

You do whatever you want, where you can, I don’t see any constraint here. Whatever will be the result, I won’t change the choices I decided to follow by myself, and with the people who defined it and/or accepted it too.

There is no interdiction and no impossibilities to do all the polls you want at the time you want, concerning the people who is interested in it.

42

IMHO you are breaking symmetry over time, by leting a single person to decide all initial values of your money, and by refusing to all next generations this right to decide about those values.

You change again the meaning of the word, you create an assymetry over time that way , and you name it symmetry.

You create a money of slavery, and you name it free. You create an assymetry over time, and you name it symmetry. I am wondering, what is happening here? Why you reverse the definitions of the words? Is all sense of logic lost?

43

Did you read my post ? :expressionless:

44

Yes I read it Inso. It is the only reasonable answer. thank you.

45

It is not an answer, and we do not answer to your questions. We just say what we are doing. You can also create a forum, a blog, a project, where you will explain what you are doing, and people will ask you information of what you propose.

Where is your work then !? Just give us a link towards your work, and will be able to come and see, and ask you about what you want to do, and then we will be able to decide it is something interesting or not, join it or not. And so everybody stay free.

What is not a free way is supposing you need to change the mind of other people to do anything, instead of changing your own mind to do the things following your own needs.

46

No we don’t.

We make a libre software, so you are free to fork it and create the rules you want.

Don’t complain to others what you can already do by yourself.

Period.

47

Dont get me wrong.
I think you have just missed something, and because you missed it, this is a reason of failure.
I am here to present what you have missed, and try to convice you to follow it.

Dont blame me for what, you are doing the same thing, you are also trying to convince people to follow ucoin, dont you?

48

Absolutely not. We don’t want people to be convinced to follow anything. We just follow our own road. Some people join us because they want to follow the same, it is ok and we are happy to share it. But we don’t want to “convince” and it is ok that other people follow other roads.

So follow your own road, we don’t want to convince you about anything. Make your own work and be happy.

49

It is ok for other people to follow other roads, but if this is always the rule, then everyone has its own road, no glue exists, and community dissapears.

You are a small community, and you will remain one as long as you ignore the glue rule.

As long as you accept the glue rule, then lets discuss and find the right glue.

Well. I think creating a money where all initial values are created by a single person and are unchanged during time, this is not a glue strong enough.

50

It is ok, I don’t see any problem here.

It is ok and it is a possibility too. No problem here too…

People who want to develop “small” or “big” “communities” follow their own road, it is not a problem. It is absolutely not the point of what we are doing here.

51

Galuel you want to create a money community, and you want to remain a small community?
You dont want real money, you just want to play a game. In that case, why dont you play monopoly?

If your goal is to remain a small community of a few persons, then this is not a real money you create. Your actions do not make sense at all if you want to remain small…

52

Bitcoin people started with 1 individual, maybe 2 or 3.

How many are they now?

53

The purpose here is not to create a “small community” neither to create a “big community”, neither to “create a community”, neither to “not create a community”.

For instance too, the goal here is not to “create a cake” neither to “not create a a cake” neither both of them, neither the absence of “create or not create a cake”.

It is absolutely possible to create a cake here. But it is far away the goal. So perhaps you should study what we are doing first, and then you will choose what you want to do by yourself, join it, not to join it, developp other thing, or doing anything, or continuing to write things on a forum…

You stay free.

54

They are many, and this was their goal. So this should be your goal too, to become many.

This is the reasonable goal, when you create money. If you start from the beggining and you say “I dont care if we will never become many” then in that case 100% your money is a failure.

The bitcoin people find a glue, and this was the blockchain. But although they are now many, time will show if they will manage to survive. I think they have missed the concept of community, thats why bitcoin is going to fail.

Ucoin has the concept of community, and this concept is inside the universal divident. You are in a good road, a better road than bitcoin, but you also have missed some key elements, in my opinion.

Community is not enough, Democracy is also a key element for the coin of the future.

55

My problem with this democracy word you use is that it sounds to you the “right to impose to others through a collective decision”.

This is not our philosophy at all.

Our democracy = the right, for any individual, to fork the blockchain/the code to set its own chosen rules.

This is already implemented, as Inso said.

1 Like
56

Yes of course. The concept of “my” democracy you are missing. The collective desisions, this is what you are missing.

Thats what we are talking about.
If your philosophy is to ignore the others, this is a point of failure.

57

Then we are clearly not on the same road. If you want to impose something to others, you won’t find it here.

So we did not missed this point at all, we just did not want it.

58

See how you change the meaning of the words?
You impose your initial values to everyone, and then you are accusing me that I am imposing something to others.

I am not imposing, I am talking, I am arguing. You are the one who imposes.

59

I create something. You are free to join it or not, I don’t impose you anything.

60

Correct, you dont impose to me anything. You impose to the people which follow you.