About DU, how it measures G1?

I think it was already asked in different forms, but the answers didn’t helped figuring out how it works.

While G1 is a unit for quick spending, DU measures the value of the community? Personally I think G1 is a dynamic measuring, while DU is static.

How to calc how much G1 is required for a DU? Cesium or others does that?


The basic formula is :

UD = c * M/N

c = monetary growth (4.88% each semester for Ğ1)
M = monetary mass (of Ğ1)
N = population (members number)

I think you could try to do the Galileo module to understand this in depth, after having read the Relative Theory of Money.

@jytou published his Galileo Module in English.

That’s it, but it is also true the other way round (Ğ1 is static while UD evolves)… depending on how you count… Or other Ğpossibilities.

Duniters Blockchain counts cents of Ğ1 as units and computes the UD each 6 months, so on a technical point of view, Ğ1 is static while UD grows.

Yes, displaying amounts in both absolute (Ğ1) and relative (UD) reference is a basic feature for Duniter clients.

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I think you could try to do the Galileo module to understand this, after having read the Relative Theory of Money.

@jytou published his Galileo Module in English.

Is it a module for Duniter? It calcs the DU based in the G1 amounts that are input to calc?

Duniters Blockchain counts cents of Ğ1 as units and computes the UD each 6 months

I would call it the base UD, which tells what is the base UD a community haves to calc for some G1. Instead of selling items measuring G1, can they put « X.x UD is accepted to buy »?

So, a item could have a fixed value in UD, and the input G1/2/3/X varies according to the different community? That’s how I see it. And thanks for your response.

One of the differences is, while DU should increase in value, G1 and other units just loses their value because of the increasing amounts.

c = monetary growth (4.48% each semester for Ğ1)
M = monetary mass (of Ğ1)
N = population (members number)
UD = c * M/N

Monetary mass isn’t circulating supply?

No, it is an exercise to help understand the RTM.

Yes. I mean, I do it on « real » market and on gchange.fr, not everyone does.

If someone fixes a price in UD, the amount in Ğ1 varies with time. But this person might not accept money from another community.

It is the number of monetary units (absolute), so I guess it is circulating supply.

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Hi Daniel,

as @matograine has advised you, I would suggest you to visit my translation of the Galileo module (which has nothing to do with a computer module, it is a form of exercise that can be done to get a better understanding of the RTM). And then you can check my own solution (in English on the same blog pages). But the best is to do it yourself. :slight_smile:

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Yes. As I’d said, UD is static while G1 is dynamic. But UD is also a universal measuring of value for any community using Duniter. Why you don’t welcome other communities? It remembers @jytou’s smokescreen’s to prevent me from creating local Duniter blockchains.

And I’m proud for, even being a newbie, being able to guess a lot about how Duniter works, and I love it as fits my ideas since times. And I thank a lot for the module you’d sent, I was really to look for a good and understandable guide for RTM, which I promote a lot in social networks.

Yes, it is. I’m from Bitcoin/Ethereum, and it can be perfectly called circulating supply, as I doubt G1 and other dynamic units (I know this nomenclature is wrong) haves a fixed max. cap.

I didn’t clicked to read it.
I’m scrapping the whole blog using wget, and I’ll upload it to IPFS. I love your content.

But instead of a « infants go home » guide requirement (which for me is a pleasure to understand RTM), the remaining question since the start of this topic: does Duniter or its clients (Sakya, Cesium and other I don’t remember the name) supports showing the DU of a community, and from that base data, calc how many G1’s in actual semester forms 1 DU?

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Tbh, I prefer the « monetary mass » name instead.

Calm, I’m not attempting to plagiarize you. It is just a mirroring. I do that for sites, articles and other pages/apps I love. I also have DTube and KeeWeb (a KeePass web app) in IPFS.

Oh, only now I saw this. Sorry. Then, could I use Cesium from web, create a account and know how many G1s are 1 DU?

There is a confusing thing: it is DU or it is UD?

You are from Brazil, aren’t you ? Would you accept Japan national currency for payment ? That’s what I am talking about. I am not talking about helping someone launch another libre currency, or not.

Please see :

You can also create your own account and give us the public key, I would happily give you some money to try it out. I recommend installing Cesium on your own hardware, from the cesium.app website.

DU stands for « dividende universel » (french)
UD stands for « universal dividend » (english)

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Yes. I thought only @jytou knew that.

Yes. Because DU is a universal measurement of a community’s value to give.

Thanks, I’m eager to explore it.

Yes, I’ll do it now after exploring how it displays UD in main/profile pages.

I didn’t saw this page before (2019). Have cesium.app updated recently?

Does gchange account is also a Duniter account, like in Cesium?

Right, it is. First, used secret/privatekey. Then, it also asked password. It formed my public key: y5Z89ZssYD3q1jR1s926LUYEijBRQbf9UWRZwsVA2f6

Well, you can use it so, but you should not. Much like you should not use the credentials for your bank account on any other website.

Your credentials are essentially a ‹ brain wallet ›, they ARE the private key. They are NOT the private key+ a password for crypting. Your private key is not stored anywhere.

For now it is not harmful since you don’t deal with a lot of units. I send you 1 unit, please send it back so I check you master this key, then I Will send some UDs.

Yes, it was created some months ago.

Un message a été scindé en un nouveau sujet : Is allowing G1 credentials in market places websites a good habit?

I think there is a misunderstanding here (I am not sure to understand your sentence, and I think you misunderstood what a libre currency is.)

The universal dividend is a form of monetary creation that guarantees equal access to the currency for each member of the community using this currency. It is not an equal access for all humans, unless the « community » is the whole Mankind (Duniter was not conceived with this aim).

So, each community can create its own libre currency. When exchanging with people from another community, either the vendor or the buyer would necessary have to change one currency to another, much like we do when we travel to another country.

However, the RTM gives us a way to compare the relative density of two currencies. This is not a formula to form an exchange rate, but it can indicate us what a current exchange rate could be. (I did not experiment this formula, but one could do it to compare two Non-Libre Units).

An « exchange price » only exists when two people trade together. It does not exist outisde this transaction. Statistics on exchange prices indicates which price others have paid, but it does not say anything about one particular trade.

For now, G1 is the only libre currency, so this exchange case does not happen. But I am sure that we will have to deal with it one day :wink:

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There must have been a misunderstanding, if you understood it that way. I would certainly be glad to see new libre currencies popping up all over the world in different regions (esp. America Latina, Africa, India…). The only point is that if you do want to create a new currency, then you need to have the developers to maintain it yourself as the French developers already have too much on their plate right now. And creating a currency with no support is definitely a bad idea since that currency could crash any day, and you would instantly lose the confidence of the users. And the only thing that a currency needs is confidence. :slight_smile: So yes, unless you have the developers, I would discourage you to create a new currency, which doesn’t mean at all that I don’t wish to see other currencies emerge, on the contrary. Besides, launching a Brazilian currency maintained by French developers is just as relevant as African countries using a currency maintained by the French government, isn’t it? :slight_smile: We see what kind of problem it causes.

I’m not sure I fully understand your question, but cesium shows everything you want to know about the currency in the “Currency” section: number of members over time, current total money mass (you call it circulating money), current value of a DU in Ğ1, current growth, all the formulas used to calculate the DU and the WOT parameters, etc. You can also display everything either in DU or in Ğ1, depending on your preference.

No problem. As long as the origin of the contents is mentioned, it is public contents so I have no problem with you copying it. :slight_smile:

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Done: https://g1.duniter.fr/#/app/block/301512

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Only if UD are enabled, in Cesium settings (section « My Operations ») :slight_smile: