How many groups I need to be part of to make a living from it?

I guess you share the vision of a basic income. An income that is big enough so that you can live with it without any other source of income. Lets pretend UCoin will become a huge success.

Can you paint a picture how it will look like? I assume all coins from all groups are openly traded. So how do you you think it might look like? Will a regular person be member of 3, 10 or 100 groups? Will they all contribute to the final basic income equally or will there be huge differences in the value of the groups?

Do you expect that there will be goups that are not unconditional but only accept members if they are willing to work for the group currency?

Yes, we do share the vision of a basic income, an unconditional income distributed to everyone.
However, we don’t share the idea of a basic income that would replace all income or even that would be sufficient to live.
We would not even speak about it because the value of such basic income can’t be decided. Value is different for each human being so, “what do you mean by sufficient?”.
The basic income of ucoin is what we call a universal dividend, it’s is the exact share of all the money creation (within space and time dimensions) between all the members.

To respect the freedom of the members, in the sense of free economic system, they have to be able to use the money they want. So surely any member could ask for joining any group and even create his own currency if he wants. That doesn’t mean that he will be accepted in every group, and it doesn’t mean that he will find every time someone who is willing to exchange a specific currency in an other one. All coins can be traded if you find someone to trade it with you. ucoin will not assure the trade of any currency, but will indeed allow you to do so if you find someone who wants to trade with you.

I hope I answer well all your question and I invite you to read the few english references available. I hope for you the RTM will soon be readable in english.
You can find some link to english documentation here : Documents anglais sur la TRM et sur uCoin. Traduction TRM

Have a smiling day,
Thatoo

1 « J'aime »

I’m going to be short on this.
Decentralizing banks isn’t enough. It will get you 2% of world gdp, which is $200 a year or it won’t work.
But this is more than enough for people living in the poorest regions in the world.
If you want to further bring the numbers up you’re going to have to autonomize and decentralize any industry you can.
And remember, on a world scale, you’re still upper class.

what is the link between decentralizing banks, 2% of world GDP and this conversation?
Maybe it was too short…

Let me correct a bit your last sentence : on a world scale, a european income is extremly high (at a level people usualy don’t imagine) but you can’t compare “class” at a world level because societies are different, you can’t choose for them what is devlopment or not, what is valuable or not…
That’s true at an individual level so at a society level it’s even more true, don’t you think?

What do you think : an astronaut A1 see an object O and measures it at the speed of 10 km/s. Another astronaut A2 measure it at 25 km/s, and a third one A3 measures it at - 7 km /s. Which one of (A1,A2,A3) has the real measure of O speed ?

Relative Money Theory has a fundamental axiom that is : relativity principle, no human has a “real” or “good” or “consensual” measure of economical values.

More than that RMT demonstrate the value you use as your referential measure of value has an impact of how individual measure values.

For instance $ is not a freedom money. It make a distorsion in space-time values, and is not a freedom money for that. Free men choose first a freedom money before being able to measure in a same referential.

But even when men choose a same referential value to estimate values, they don’t agree at all about what is value and what is not value, and the measure of those values.

Theese astronaut use same referential to measure : meters and seconds, but they don’t agree.

Before inventing the international unity that are meter and second men used foot, miles, coudée, coudée royale, and plenty of different measures to make measures. Adopting meter they advanced toward better understanding between them, but there is still the relativity principle that apply between them concerning any object, in a different way.

You can study a presentation of what is different referentials and relativity principle in economy as demonstrated in RMT studying this video or this video.

You can study RMT development in his official site.

You can have a short look on 4 referentials inside a freedom money in this video.

I read/replied too quickly, so all I thought that this was another ‘uCoin = Basic Income for me’ post and I wanted to correct mKoepelmann that I doubt that uCoin could mean a decent basic income for expensive big cities in developed nations like Paris or Monaco.

So I didn’t read the question and it wasn’t the question I thought it would be.
So answering mKoepelmann’s questions:

I think regular people will have 100s of groups. To start off with, there’s going to be one coin to be wildly popular and then there’s the altcoins that works in niche, perhaps regular people will have 3 at most. But on top of that I think uCoin will eventually have a project named ‘uStock’ or ‘uShares’ as well. That way not only do we create coins, but stocks for distributed autonomous companies as well. And that’s going to run into the 100s.

How are people going to work for it and why can’t a robot/computer do it better? Such an idea will always end up like Bitcoin and fiat currencies, the person/company with the biggest machines gets all the coins.

Speed is a really confusing concept. I have mixed it up with acceleration several times and perhaps this time so have you.
I think that speed is a referential concept? Meaning that you need a reference object to measure the speed of object O.
For us and the astronauts that would be planet earth and so the real measure should be done from the planet the astronauts came from ignoring rotational speed of the planet.

Don’t currencies grow in percentages and thus are similar to acceleration, not speed, correct?
And astronauts can all measure the same acceleration.

You can study a presentation of what is different referentials and relativity principle in economy as demonstrated in RMT studying this video or this video.

You can study RMT development in his official site.

You can have a short look on 4 referentials inside a freedom money in this video.

Mon Francais est mauvais. :cry:

No

Not at all. It depends where they are. And acceleration is not an invariant object too.

If you beleive in absolute reality, then you cannot understand relativity.

Well, I could imagine a group where the members of the group would only let you in (sign you) if you express the willingness to offer your labor force for this group money.

The value of a groups money will be determined by the range of goods and services you can buy for it. This is why groups have an interest that you can buy something from this money.

Thanks for this input. I was indeed under the impression that already the money creation process could be sufficient as a basic income.

I looked now at the money supply of the Euro Zone: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geldmenge#Geldmengen_der_Europ.C3.A4ischen_Zentralbank (sorry German, but the numbers are easy to find/read)
In the last 10 years M3 increased from 6570B€ to 10547B€. About 330M people are living in the Euro zone. So it is about 12,000€ per Person in 10 years. 1,200€ per year per person is clearly not the basic income I have in mind.

So I agree - we need to go beyond free money.

You should better have a look to RMT studies of the money supply :

etc…

I am pretty sure that the content is interesting - however, with a google translated version it is not readable at all.