Verification Motanio

Hello, I would like to try out G1Test.
Pseudonym: Motanio
Public key: CBMazfzdXf51gBAZtndaPmWEDvKvWU23yYUBaZ8HCoa2

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what are your expectations from us to use the Ğ1-test network ?

Do you want some certifications to be a member to write some blocks (I warn you that there is no reward to write a block in Duniter) ?

Can I ask you about your profile ?

Are you a developer or just curious about Duniter ?

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I don’t really have much in terms of expectations. I am pretty skeptical about Duniter, but do see that people see enough in it to do a bunch of work on it.

I would like some certifications to try out the G1Test network. Just seemed easier to get a look at since people are supposed to confirm my identity on G1.

Not sure what you mean about my profile, but while I am an open-source developer, I am just curious and not interested in developing Duniter (unless it turns out to be a good idea in my eyes).

The thing that I am skeptical about is if the Web of Trust aspect could actually work. How is someone supposed to make sure that I don’t already have an account? They cannot go by name, because there is multiple people with the same name, and I don’t see Cesium asking for a date of birth. Even then I am pretty sure there is a couple of people on this world that have the same name and date of birth.

Also as soon as you have a group of at least 5 users, you could just create fake accounts together and create an exponentially growing net of fake accounts certifying each other.

Then there is also the fact that friends will likely just trust each other and not check if there already is an account.
People could also provide fake IDs or a corrupt government might even create fake IDs itself.

No, you can’t. Further reading.

We don’t ask people to check if the one they certify already owns another identity. We ask them to know this person well enough to proceed to verifications if a duplicate account is suspected. There is a use license explaining this.

This means, if a duplicate account is suspected and confirmed after verifications, the one who did fraud turns out fooling their friends/social network. Peer pressure plays a role in people not wanting to create fake accounts. But technically yes, small frauds are possible.

We don’t ask for IDs :wink:

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We ask them to know this person well enough to proceed to verifications if a duplicate account is suspected. There is a use license explaining this.

How would a verification work? From what I read, you need to check with the rest of the network if someone already verified them for a different account.

It’s pretty hard to understand the license, not just because it is complicated but also because the grammar is pretty bad.
For example:

You are assured:
1°) The person who declares to manage this public key (new account) and to have personally checked with him that this is the public key is sufficiently well known (not only to know this person visually) that you are about to certify.


Warning: Certifying is not just about making sure you’ve met the person, it’s ensuring that the community Ğ1 knows the certified person well enough and Duplicate account made by a person certified by you, or other types of problems (disappearance …), by cross-checking that will reveal the problem if necessary.

I assume there is a french version that makes more sense.

Also am I understanding it right that a person like me for example would not be able to join the G1 network until it has actually physically reached me to the point where I have at least 5 real life friends to verify me?
How else would you make sure that the person doesn’t just have multiple identities? Even if I was to drive to 5 G1 members and have them verify that I am indeed « Motanio » (in this case), I could just create another identity and drive to 5 other G1 members to verify that I am indeed « Matanio ».
I mean sure, you ask them to know the person « well enough », but that would mean that I for example couldn’t join the G1 network because no one inside the network knows me well enough.

Yes. edit- or you could get closer to current members, in real life. Or you are already close to members and you don’t know it.

No, because one physical meeting is not enough. You have to know the person well enough. In other words, the person needs to be part of your social network (and I mean your real relationships).

I meet Mary in the Train, we don’t know each other. During the trip, we find out we both know Suzan. This makes me think of certifying Suzan. I search Mary among Suzan’s certifiers, I don’t find her…

I call Mary to check Suzan is really the same Suzan. She is. And Mary did certify the same Suzan, on another account?! Boom! Suzan’s fraud accounts are revealed. I may as well call other certifiers of Suzan to check this.

Then, the fraud is published, Suzan is ashamed and has no more friends (or at least, her friends don’t trust her concerning WoTs identity). My certification to her would perish and I would not certify her another time, other friends may be double-careful…

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How is the network supposed to expand at this point?
People don’t generally go around and ask everyone they know if they are part of a (currently) tiny community.

There is still a lot of things I see to be skeptical about, but I would just need to see if the concerns are actually relevant in the real world.
Realistically speaking, if someone was to explain our current capitalist economy to me and I wasn’t living in it I would see just as many concerns.

By the way, thanks for answering my questions. This kind of stuff is pretty complicated and while I might be able to get my head around it if I take a couple of days, it just wouldn’t be worthwhile to study every project I come across for multiple days just to find out that it’s not for me.

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It is slow. That’s why we’re only 3000 and not 3 millions. But the 3000 are really involved because it’s not only a currency : It’s a concrete proof that creating money in a decentralised horizontal and non hierarchic way is possible. It’s an experimentation on 80 years.
WOT is not perfect, I agree with you, but as the devs didn’t want any authority to control and regulate the system, the choice has been made to leave it to the users… It has some good, it has some bad. If we can find a better way to do it, we’ll take it of course. Until then, WOT it is…

In the spirit, it’s very close to Free Software.

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WoT is not the only limiting factor: it has to be understood and adopted by people.

If the WoT was more permissive and let more people become cocreator, maybe we wouldn’t even have more users, because the most interested and invested people aren’t stopped by the WoT limitations, meanwhile a lot of people receive 5 certifications and then just never use their account, because they are not deeply interested. WoT member ≠ Ğ1 user

A hypothesis (and hope) is that this slowly-but-steadily growing core of really interested members is going to make things easier and more attractive for other people (who don’t have enough time) to join, by broadening the market, making better tools, teaching, etc.

However everybody seems OK to say the current WoT has scalability problems. But it’s yet an experiment, and other developers can start another libre currency with another WoT (or even a completely different system).

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