Ğ1 paired on Ethereum, with value and tradeable with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies


#1

Hi!
I knew Duniter at 2018 (and began working to make it a default app on my Linux distro and make it very integrated and intuitive for newbie users), and recently I study about its technical specs.

Yesterday I thought how Ğ1 could be spent in ANY PLACE (even the ones that doesn’t accepts it) and haves a value paired with other cryptocurrencies

Only today I had a idea about it.

Creating an placeholder token (G1P - Ğ1 Placeholder) on Ethereum network, with volume paired with Ğ1. Also, G1P will be tradeable with Ğ1 in a 1:1 basis, and the trading fees cames for minting new tokens when there are new Ğ1 created.

What are your thoughts?


Ğ1 functionning
#2

Speaking in an easy way to understand:

  • G1P is available on Ethereum
  • G1P is tradeable with Ğ1 at a 1:1 basis
  • People interested in Duniter, buys G1P to exchange
  • An restaurant doesn’t accepts Ğ1, but Ethereum, then a customer exchanges Ğ1 to G1P at the exchange I’m projecting, and G1P to Ethereum on a conventional exchange
  • As people are buying and selling G1P, it receives a value at conventional exchanges, including EtherDelta
  • As G1P receives a value on conventional exchanges, Ğ1 is also with value on conventional exchanges even if it can’t be traded on them, because G1P and Ğ1 are tradeable by 1:1 basis

Also, if a commerce doesn’t accepts Ethereum but Bitcoin, or only FIAT (physical or credit card) money, both Bitcoin/Ethereum can be exchanged to FIAT, so the trading draw:

  1. Ğ1 > G1P
  2. G1P > ETH/BTC
  3. ETH/BTC > Physical/credit card money

So, with G1P, Ğ1 receives a value on Ethereum, Bitcoin and any other currency globaly


#3

Hi Daniel,
I personally don’t see this as a good idea and I will explain why. These are my own opinions, other people here might think differently (but they might be shy to answer because some don’t master the English language):

  • Ğ1 differentiates itself from other currencies by the way money is created ; as far as I know, Ethereum is mined, and only the richest can afford to create some, this goes pretty much against everything Libre Money stands for since it produces symmetry inequalities due to an asymetric way of creating money,
  • you are merely creating bonds (IOUs) on the Ğ1, let’s see who wants to use them, I suspect you may not find many people who will want to use them here, but again I may be wrong, maybe people outside the Ğ1 will think “hey, a new crypto that looks promising, let’s invest”, maybe when they realize that this crypto thrives on abundance rather than on scarceness unlike 99% of other cryptos, they will turn their heads elsewhere, people rarely speculate on something that gets abundant over time :slight_smile: - but as long as you didn’t try, we will never know if I’m right or wrong :),
  • people who choose to use a Libre Currency believe that when you use something, you give it some value (you vote when you buy a product), and starting to use Ethereum as a support to transfer money gives it value ; although from a technical standpoint Ethereum is a great technology, from an ethical standpoint (call it, inequality, justice, whatever) it is absolutely terrible in my eyes - of course as a speculative object it is great, but that’s not what we’re here for in the Libre Currencies.
  • we can already trade with Ğ1 worldwide, people just need to create an account on g1.duniter.fr, that’s it! It is definitely not out of reach for anyone who is familiar with crypto technology (and who would use an Eth Token).

Nobody can stop you from doing this. This is freedom after all. Then we’ll find out if other people find the idea seducing. :slight_smile: I would personally find it amusing to see how much crypto-geeks would value 1 Ğ1 vs 1 ETH or 1 BTC. :slight_smile:

I do have a technical question, though: how do you plan to make the 1:1 basis between G1P and Ğ1? I mean, technically? How do you prevent anyone to exchange between those 2 tokens with another rate? Wouldn’t those two “values” inevitably diverge in value at some point?


#4

I personally don’t see this as a good idea and I will explain why. These are my own opinions, other people here might think differently (but they might be shy to answer because some don’t master the English language):

I’m also personally against Duniter/its value depending on Bitcoin. Let us give the value to Duniter, as it is a Libre Money. But the focus of this exchange is for people that is outside the Duniter net, or who that want to spent Ğ1 at conventional way. And personally I prefer to exchange Ğ1 to G1P and this to Bitcoin, and selling Bitcoin to physical money. But also, its our role to disclose about Duniter and suggest sellers to accept cryptocurrencies, better if is Duniter.

  • Ğ1 differentiates itself from other currencies by the way money is created ; as far as I know, Ethereum is mined, and only the richest can afford to create some, this goes pretty much against everything Libre Money stands for since it produces symmetry inequalities due to an asymetric way of creating money,

Yes, and Ethereum will only get less unfair when it move from PoW to PoS, which is a good approach of Duniter to keep on PoW but being against high power consumption and priviledges on the most powerful machines; because Duniter is people-centered, even if they doesn’t offers money to be staked or expensive machines.
Instead of talking how Ğ1 trading to ETH is useful, lets talk about how Duniter could be also an alternative to Ethereum’s core: smart-contracts. Will Duniter receive smart-contracts support?

I suspect you may not find many people who will want to use them here, but again I may be wrong, maybe people outside the Ğ1 will think “hey, a new crypto that looks promising, let’s invest”

G1P is not only for people outside Duniter, but also who is inside. For example, my case that I mentioned before (trading Ğ1 to ETH/BTC, then trading to FIAT money).
And I believe other Duniter insiders will want to trade Ğ1 to G1P, and also outsiders will be interested on Duniter, and before really touching it, will begin with G1P for speculative trading, then reading more about their holding, and then really creating money by using the Duniter app.
But for more stable value, I think about creating another smart-contract on Ethereum, where G1P holders could stake it to mint new G1P (and these G1P comes from trading fees on the exchange). Is that good? Your feedback is useful and welcome. I believe a staking contract will be good to establish the value of Ğ1 outside Duniter, as people will want to hold it instead of just dropping for daily tradings.

  • people who choose to use a Libre Currency believe that when you use something, you give it some value (you vote when you buy a product), and starting to use Ethereum as a support to transfer money gives it value ; although from a technical standpoint Ethereum is a great technology, from an ethical standpoint (call it, inequality, justice, whatever) it is absolutely terrible in my eyes - of course as a speculative object it is great, but that’s not what we’re here for in the Libre Currencies.

I agree and share the same vision about Ethereum as not being really a Libre Money, and being used for speculative trading. But it will be useful for Duniter anyway, as everyone would choose how to use/spent Ğ1, inside or outside Duniter. That is also a principle of Libre Currencies, and gives it more options to control own money. As already mentioned, personally, I prefer to spent Ğ1 at places that only accepts Bitcoin or FIAT as these commerce are abundant. And I know a friend that also prefers that. G1P would offer options for both insiders and outsiders.

  • we can already trade with Ğ1 worldwide, people just need to create an account on g1.duniter.fr, that’s it! It is definitely not out of reach for anyone who is familiar with crypto technology (and who would use an Eth Token).

But how it works?
No offense, but I think the main site of Duniter is missing with highlights. For example, some banners like: “Block explorer”, “Spent Ğ1”, “Exchange/trade Ğ1”, “Download/access Duniter clients/wallets”, and so on.

This is freedom after all. Then we’ll find out if other people find the idea seducing. :slight_smile: I would personally find it amusing to see how much crypto-geeks would value 1 Ğ1 vs 1 ETH or 1 BTC. :slight_smile:

Well, they will not value, but just use/buy/sell, and it is the role of exchanges to calc its value based on these data. I’m not directly replying that for you, but for any newcommer that read (as I believe you already knows that). And I’m also hyped to see how Ğ1 (as it is unusual, different from 99% of other money including all cryptocurrencies) can be valued by who doesn’t uses Duniter. I believe it would be a big achievement for everyone here and there.

I do have a technical question, though: how do you plan to make the 1:1 basis between G1P and Ğ1? I mean, technically?

An NodeJS server, accessible on Web or as an mobile/desktop (hybrid) app using both Cordova and Electron.

Talking about the server, it will have privatekeys (Ethereum and Duniter) in cold storage.
When an user puts an sell order of Ğ1, who puts buy orders will fill out it with G1P and receive the Ğ1 they want to buy, while the creator of sell order will receive the G1P he wanted to buy.

How do you prevent anyone to exchange between those 2 tokens with another rate? Wouldn’t those two “values” inevitably diverge in value at some point?

Like other stable coins, G1P will be invariably paired with Ğ1 and vice-versa; the server puts that value: 1 Ğ1 worths 1 G1P,and 1 G1P worths 1 Ğ1.


#5

Let me answer loosely. :slight_smile:

I perfectly understand what you are saying - right now pairing Ğ1 with an Eth Token can give some hype to the concept within the crypto-world. There are many people who are in crypto and who are not there only for speculative reasons. So yes, I perfectly get that point.

And yes the Duniter ecosystem still needs to be marketed in a better way. Feel free to suggest things - actually the wiki is already editable on gitlab. :slight_smile: By the way, to any crypto-enthusiast, Duniter may seem strange at first because the environment is built from scratch and doesn’t really resemble others. Typically, there is no block explorer in the traditional way, if you want to develop one, that would be great. There is also no exchange platform. Be aware that as soon as you start trading in State currencies, you will have to comply with local laws of these currencies. With the Ğ1 we also try to keep away from traditional currencies because it skews our vision of “value”. Rather than thinking “how much is this in [fill in with your favourite currency]?” and then converting with a rate to Ğ1, we’d rather think directly in Ğ1 and compare to the DU and/or other goods and services that are sold around us in Ğ1. It is a different paradigm. At the cost of keeping ourselves to ourselves, for sure. As the nature of the currency is really different, it is not such an odd behaviour after all. But again I’m perfectly aware that it would be great to attract some people in crypto.

I don’t believe that POS is less unfair than POW - the richest get richer, as usual (you need to stake and the more you can stake the more you create new units). It is only less energy-greedy, that’s all. :slight_smile: There are some thoughts of getting rid of POW in Duniter, but these are only thoughts, no plans for now. The current roadmap is focused toward getting more developers involved and make the whole ecosystem more robust. There were also some discussions more than a year ago to develop a full virtual machine in the Duniter blockchain, but these efforts are still far in the future. We simply don’t have enough resources. In this sense, being able to have some contracts on Ether seems like a “better than nothing” option. :wink:

The centralized solution for the exchange is worrying me a little, though. But if you want to maintain a 1:1 rate, I suppose we don’t have a choice.

Just a side note: as you are obviously a nodejs developer, why not start contributing to the core of Duniter, which is written in nodejs? :slight_smile: We do need nodejs developers here. At least I believe @cgeek (the main developer) would be happy to welcome you.

PS: where are you located? If you are going to be a member, surely you must be around somewhere, not so far from France. And then it would be good for you to know that the Duniter developers are gathering next month in the South of France.


#6

About the VM have a look at this (in English) https://git.duniter.org/nodes/common/doc/blob/rfc5-duniter-protocol-rework/rfc/0005%20New%20Scalable%20Blockchain%20Protocol.md

This one might also interest you (in French) [WIP] Ethereum Oracle for Duniter blockchain

And to replace POW there is this (in French) Abandonner la preuve de travail grâce a la toile de confiance?

Note that the POW we are using is quite “green”, I run it on a raspberry at home and it works perfectly well (when alone, it forges 1 block every 1-2 days). I currently also have another node that uses 1% of an Athlon which forges blocks several times a day. So the power needed on conventional hardware is almost negligible, thanks to the WOT, which is quite unique to Duniter (I haven’t seen that in any other crypto). In fact, it is using much less power than any POS coin I have minted in the past.


#7

And yes the Duniter ecosystem still needs to be marketed in a better way. Feel free to suggest things - actually the wiki is already editable on gitlab

The main site is also open-sourced?

By the way, to any crypto-enthusiast, Duniter may seem strange at first because the environment is built from scratch and doesn’t really resemble others. Typically, there is no block explorer in the traditional way, if you want to develop one, that would be great.

How it is different, in blockchain terms?

There is also no exchange platform. Be aware that as soon as you start trading in State currencies, you will have to comply with local laws of these currencies.

The idea is not to make Duniter tradeable with State currencies, but with Ethereum/Bitcoin.

With the Ğ1 we also try to keep away from traditional currencies because it skews our vision of “value”.

Yes, we should not depend on the external value (G1P), but the intrinsic value of Duniter. So, Duniter would have two value markers.

Rather than thinking “how much is this in [fill in with your favourite currency]?” and then converting with a rate to Ğ1, we’d rather think directly in Ğ1 and compare to the DU and/or other goods and services that are sold around us in Ğ1.

What is the exchange rate between DU and Ğ1?

I don’t believe that POS is less unfair than POW - the richest get richer, as usual (you need to stake and the more you can stake the more you create new units). It is only less energy-greedy, that’s all.

Thinking well, you’re right that PoS is unfair as PoW in terms of capital requirements, as PoW is just energy-friendly. Also, stake system (even being more profitable for who haves more Duniter units), would be very good for G1P, as it incentives hold.

There are some thoughts of getting rid of POW in Duniter, but these are only thoughts, no plans for now.

PoW is working well on Duniter, and PoS would be bad as you mentioned before. What would replace PoW on Duniter?

The current roadmap is focused toward getting more developers involved and make the whole ecosystem more robust.

What about turning Duniter into a DAO on Aragon? It will give a fairer governance and trust, attracting more developers.

There were also some discussions more than a year ago to develop a full virtual machine in the Duniter blockchain

A turing machine, like Ethereum? Good if it uses JavaScript instead of Solidity, and side-chains (like Lisk) instead of relying on the same blockchain.
Also, a thing that should be avoided on Duniter’s main chain is accepting custom data into transactions.

Just a side note: as you are obviously a nodejs developer, why not start contributing to the core of Duniter, which is written in nodejs?

I’m not a NodeJS developer, but a beginner JavaScript/Electron dev. But I’m creating a software where even newbies could program JS apps, through event sheets. Good to see if Duniter source gets moved to Eventlr, so I’ll contribute to its core like a skilled programmer.

PS: where are you located? If you are going to be a member, surely you must be around somewhere, not so far from France. And then it would be good for you to know that the Duniter developers are gathering next month in the South of France.

I’m from Brazil. Creating a gap would be hard. How Duniter WoT knows if people are really geographically related?


#8

Thanks for the articles. Reading in French wouldn’t be bad, as Google translates french > english very well.

Note that the POW we are using is quite “green”, I run it on a raspberry at home and it works perfectly well (when alone, it forges 1 block every 1-2 days). I currently also have another node that uses 1% of an Athlon which forges blocks several times a day. So the power needed on conventional hardware is almost negligible, thanks to the WOT, which is quite unique to Duniter (I haven’t seen that in any other crypto). In fact, it is using much less power than any POS coin I have minted in the past.

So it is better to mine with 1% of CPU than 20% or 100%, which makes sense as the “inverted PoW” lowers the rewards if it begins consuming more power.


#9

Yup. https://git.duniter.org/websites/website_en

The main difference is the WOT. But in terms of pure monetary transactions, it is quite similar to other blockchains. Developing a proper explorer shouldn’t be a big deal. It just needs to be done. But so far we do have 3 tools (cesium, sakia, silkaj) that enable us to explore accounts, transactions and show blocks, we didn’t really find the need to develop a standalone BE.

You can see it in real time on https://g1.duniter.fr/#/app/currency/lg

It is currently (and for the next 6 months) 1 DU = 10.07 Ğ1

The thing is that it would probably be possible to have a consensus algorithm that would select the next candidate node(s) that would emit a block, without needing POW at all, in a form of Proof of Authority (since only members can create new blocks). We do use a mix of POW and POA right now since only members create blocks and there is an automatic rotation of members who create blocks, but we could probably get rid of POW altogether. We couldn’t totally figure it out yet. Can you understand French? If so, you can read Abandonner la preuve de travail grâce a la toile de confiance? if not you’ll have to stick to my explanation which I hope is already enough. :slight_smile:

Duniter doesn’t know. The people who certify you will know. :slight_smile: This is 100% human-centric. If you do live in Brazil, then maybe your best bet is to get to know the core of Duniter and start your own test currency for a start with people you know around you.

Exactly.


#10

Yup. https://git.duniter.org/websites/website_en

Well, for more simplicity and uniformity, the repo could store a only site but with all languages in .json.

It is currently (and for the next 6 months) 1 DU = 10.07 Ğ1

But is true that Ğ1 haves a tendency to lose value, while DU will reach more value?

Duniter doesn’t know. The people who certify you will know. :slight_smile: This is 100% human-centric. If you do live in Brazil, then maybe your best bet is to get to know the core of Duniter and start your own test currency for a start with people you know around you.

The project itself is good as 100% human-centric, but I’m unsure it is good for the algo.
If an majority of bots decides to act as humans?


#11

I guess you should read the Relative Theory of Money. The Universal Dividend is thought to be a stable unit of measurement of value when the number of people using a Libre Currency is stable. So it doesn’t lose or gain value. The Ğ1s will certainly have a tendency to lose value over time, since we will create an exponential amount of them.

For this one, you need to read: https://duniter.org/en/deep-dive-into-the-web-of-trust/

Bots would never make their way inside the WOT as no human would certify them. This is why certifications are ruled very strictly by the licence. This is also why I’m suggesting you should create your own Brazilian Libre Currency using the Duniter software.


#12

The Ğ1s will certainly have a tendency to lose value over time, since we will create an exponential amount of them.

So, wouldn’t it be better to have a DUP token instead of G1P?

Bots would never make their way inside the WOT as no human would certify them. This is why certifications are ruled very strictly by the licence.

But if people with bad intentions, that knows each other, begins on verifying/giving certificates to bots? Also, bots can be used to renew certificate.

This is also why I’m suggesting you should create your own Brazilian Libre Currency using the Duniter software.

But this Brazillian Currency could be exchanged after a bridge is created?


#13

The units that are stored are Ğ1s. Counting in UDs (Universal Dividends in English) is just changing the frame of reference, but you can only store Ğ1s. The whole point of Libre Currency is that you shouldn’t be able to hoard massive quantities of money forever (compared to the money mass), since that is the source of many inequalities. If you did make a UDP, then yes it would be good for UDP holders but at some point you would have a problem because you would not have enough Ğ1s to give them back when they sell transform UDPs back to Ğ1s.

Say someone today buys 1 UDP with 10.07 Ğ1s. So you are storing 10.07 Ğ1 from that buyer. 10 years later, the same guy returns and asks to convert his UDP back. By then, the value of 1 UD in Ğ1s will have grown to, say, 20 Ğ1s. How will you get the missing 10 Ğ1s?

Everything is explained in the link I have given you in the previous post: https://duniter.org/en/deep-dive-into-the-web-of-trust/

The WOT is protected by strong rules that have been examined by people who are into Graph Theory. If I were to summarize: a rogue group creating fake entities would manage to create some at a very low pace and we would become aware of their existence before long. Before they can grow, people would not certify them again after 2 years and their whole scam would fall apart. Besides, these people would never be able to get certifications again and would be excluded from the WOT. You need to study the article before you jump to hasty conclusions. :slight_smile:

Exchanged with what? Ğ1? Nobody can stop anyone from exchanging apples and tomatoes. The same would go for Ğ1s and ĞBraz… :slight_smile: Unless of course one government forbids it (which government? what would be its legitimacy over ĞCurrency?). Such endeavour is always destined to fail. Russia tried to forbid its citizens from using and accepting USDs, but they never succeeded.


#14

Philosopically, thats is precisely what we’re trying to get rid of here! incentives drives inequality. It bias the rule of the game.

WoT from a security standpoint. whatever is better from a pure technological one. As a dev of a secondary implementation I am in no hurry to change the underlying protocol.

I’d say there is at least one more, should you consider the features and tools being developed

statistic is quite different than automatic, the rotation is based on increased personal difficulty, not a ticket number that guarantee you’ll ever forge a block…

What would be the point ?

There is one variable, you didn’t quote, which I seem lack here in your reasoning.
inherently to the Web of Trust mecanism is a limit in the currency’s population size. it isn’t a hard limit and has no determined value, its just very unlikely to grow bigger than a few million… world population is about a thousand time bigger, (probably not for long as we exhaust the planet faster than it regenerates) but anyway, there should be about a thousand libre currencies (to cover world’s population using same wot parameter) which leads to a question: is that really necessary to be able to buy things ANY PLACE ?

Globalization has its advantages and its weirdness.

Now on the question of trading the currency with another one, may I suggest you this analogy

how would you trade a stream of goods against a stock of another good. Essentially the problem here is that the definition we use for the term currency is as of Stream. The Relative Theory of Money shows the misconception of the previous (yet accepted by most) Quantitative Theory of Money.

the point is that there is a paradox between store of value and a neutral medium of exchange

the mathematical proof is the basis for this first libre currency to emerge. most of the devs and community members are far from concerns of crypto stockpile since we’re in the business of crypto currency
therefore, exchanging your stock of eth, btc or gold with our stream of money is a strange concept.

techno-analogy-caly, you’re asking how to store a usb flash drive on a floppy disk. given a fair amount of floppy disk, its not impossible, it can also be done through compact drives, it just appears as an anachronism.

I suggest the same as Jytou did, that is, spawn and develop a libre currency in Brazil and you will naturally see stream exchange appear as goods and services flows between our two communities…

From a personal experimental point of view, I would say that this mostly attract people willing to reduce the number of intermediate between value production and value consumption rather than smartass bankers.

Do you rather throw seeds in your garden and rest while it grows, or pump oil, have it cross the world, transform it to chemicals and energy. Light up a bulb and have your plant grow twice faster, sell your surplus to cover your costs? Its a dilemma, at some point in history the later was considered more humanist as it employs more people but perhaps this will change… people may simply prefer to reduce intermediates and take care of their own garden


#15

The units that are stored are Ğ1s. Counting in UDs (Universal Dividends in English) is just changing the frame of reference, but you can only store Ğ1s.

If I create ĞBRL, it will have its UDs?

The whole point of Libre Currency is that you shouldn’t be able to hoard massive quantities of money forever (compared to the money mass)

So, if people haves Ğ1 stored, some amount is taken?

If you did make a UDP, then yes it would be good for UDP holders but at some point you would have a problem because you would not have enough Ğ1s to give them back when they sell transform UDPs back to Ğ1s.

About exchange, it is up to traders to have the needed amount.

Say someone today buys 1 UDP with 10.07 Ğ1s. So you are storing 10.07 Ğ1 from that buyer. 10 years later, the same guy returns and asks to convert his UDP back. By then, the value of 1 UD in Ğ1s will have grown to, say, 20 Ğ1s. How will you get the missing 10 Ğ1s?

The seller will not sell again to extact the same buyer.

The same would go for Ğ1s and ĞBraz…

But if I join and create a currency for BR, I get a certificate in own WoT?


#16

Philosopically, thats is precisely what we’re trying to get rid of here! incentives drives inequality.

I understand. But I’m not talking about Duniter itself, but a bridge outside it. So Duniter would have two value markers: on the legacy market (FIAT, Bitcoin) and its own intrinsic value.

I’d say there is at least one more, should you consider the features and tools being developed

What is the other?

What would be the point ?

There is one variable, you didn’t quote, which I seem lack here in your reasoning.
inherently to the Web of Trust mecanism is a limit in the currency’s population size. it isn’t a hard limit and has no determined value, its just very unlikely to grow bigger than a few million… world population is about a thousand time bigger, (probably not for long as we exhaust the planet faster than it regenerates) but anyway, there should be about a thousand libre currencies (to cover world’s population using same wot parameter) which leads to a question: is that really necessary to be able to buy things ANY PLACE ?

You gave an amazing point.
But the Duniter devs states that anyone can use Duniter, which is different from generating money. That is the point of the external exchange.

therefore, exchanging your stock of eth, btc or gold with our stream of money is a strange concept.

Yes, as Duniter having its own way of getting value, is also weird for others.
To making a balance, I think Duniter should have two value markers: its own nature, and from Bitcoin market.

I suggest the same as Jytou did, that is, spawn and develop a libre currency in Brazil and you will naturally see stream exchange appear as goods and services flows between our two communities…

There are other communities outside France? They haves their own WoT certificate?

Do you rather throw seeds in your garden and rest while it grows, or pump oil, have it cross the world, transform it to chemicals and energy. Light up a bulb and have your plant grow twice faster, sell your surplus to cover your costs? Its a dilemma, at some point in history the later was considered more humanist as it employs more people but perhaps this will change… people may simply prefer to reduce intermediates and take care of their own garden

Yes, that is the point of Duniter, but also the democracy of opportunity for others (non-members in WoT) to use it.


#17

Another important question: if I create ĞBRL, it will be “mineable” through PoW?


#18

Assuming you initiate block 0 using the same parameters you’ll need to be >= 5 to start it as you need 5 certificate to be a member. Using Duniter, Im not sure you can forge a block 0 as is, I believe @cgeek used a different tool. but I don’t know, I wasnt there then.

I develop Juniter a java translation of the original Duniter. it has an interface to create block 0 (ugly, untested, unfinished)

If you do, you’d have your own Web of Trust and blockchain would also use a PoW to forge block yes. Note I use forge rather than mine as mining is a misleading concept here, we’re not mining since its not a limited stock of … rock, metal… PoW is too in my opinion but, well, competition is understood as a concept to reach consensus for thousands of years so yes blocks are written by certified member of the community, like for the Olympic games, the fastest win. and that’s how everybody agree.

There are people outside France, yes, but there is only one WoT we know of so far.

you can literally create ğ2, ğbrazil, ǧSamba, or whatever name you want to give it if you convince 4 of your friends to change the world. You have to find people like the very first bitcoin users, those who probably believed it was for fun and they were giving the goods, not selling it. not those who seek the million dollar pizza story. because of everything you can promise users this is the one thing that will never happen. the counter part to stability and neutrality is that the dream isn’t as big and juicy… but it remains a dream nonetheless, at least for 1850 people so far

Yes you can create a wallet account, sell and buy stuff. you wont’ be able to write blocks or receive your dividend.

I see your point with the exchange, it will come eventually, the reason nobody did it yet, is probably philosophical. How did bitcoin grow? because it was trade-able? or because …


#19

Well, you simply were out of the conversation (after more than 1 hour seeing that you’re tipping), just repeating what others orders to say.
“4”, “change the world”, “pizza”, “UFO”…
I can’t reply to an talking like that.


#20

???

4 + you = 5 = minimum number of members assuming you’re using the same parameters

change the world is exactly related to “I want to believe”, the UFO is not any UFO it’s Mulder and Scully office’s poster in X-files, its a reference. as most Sci-fi to the future and the unknown. its not hasardous

the million dollar pizza is a reference to a known story about bitcoin. my intentions were not to get you lost there. its just my own way of seeing things