Systèmes de reconnaissance d'identité alternatifs (votez, s'il vous plait)

[Nartagnan]

For Duniter (This is MY interpretation, it is not absolute but I hope it is mainly right)

• Why this community would be for ?

To implement the TRM, which is a new way to create the money (and we think it is fairer)

• What would be the rules to have the right to enter this community ?

Being a human and having a unique membership

• What would be the benefits for its members to be part of it ?

Being recognised as a human and so gainig the right to create money

• What would be the interactions with non-members ?

Non-members can do transactions, they just cannot create money (but can gain it)

• Who can decide what and how (unanimity ? 51% consensus ? etc…) ?

Rules are defined in the license and in the software, you have to agree in order to be a member. These rules can change if at least 51% of the members calculating nodes agree and start to run another version of the software.

[demo]

@Nartagnan

Duniter is not a democracy, it is a tyranny : everybody rely on the shoulders of 1 slave (hi @cgeek).

If somebody else write a modification of the actual software, the community will choose which one it want. But saying “Slave, provide us a different software without retribution” is not a democracy either.

All the above questions have already be discussed, and the answers are avaiable on the forum. If you want I can write what I think the answers are.

@cgeek banned me for one year.
He probalby is doing the same to other developers too, probably also not.

[demo]

@Nartagnan

For Duniter (This is MY interpretation, it is not absolute but I hope it is mainly right)

• Why this community would be for ?

To implement the TRM, which is a new way to create the money (and we think it is fairer)

• What would be the rules to have the right to enter this community ?

Being a human and having a unique membership

• What would be the benefits for its members to be part of it ?

Being recognised as a human and so gainig the right to create money

• What would be the interactions with non-members ?

Non-members can do transactions, they just cannot create money (but can gain it)

• Who can decide what and how (unanimity ? 51% consensus ? etc…) ?

Rules are defined in the license and in the software, you have to agree in order to be a member. These rules can change if at least 51% of the members calculating nodes agree and start to run another version of the software.

You should put all the above questions into a VOTE.

[demo]

@Nartagnan

• Who can decide what and how (unanimity ? 51% consensus ? etc…) ?

Rules are defined in the license and in the software, you have to agree in order to be a member. These rules can change if at least 51% of the members calculating nodes agree and start to run another version of the software.

Please read the bold rule.

51% rule should be supported by a least 51% of the people.
Additionaly it is unfair 51% of the people to claim that their decisions should be valid for 100% of the time.

[Nartagnan]

@demo

He probalby is doing the same to other developers too, probably also not.

I have no proof of it, and knowing how much he want help I doubt a lot.

@demo

You should put all the above questions into a VOTE.

It is a kind of vote : you can vote YES by entering the community, and voting NO by leaving it.
If 51% of the members decide to change, they can do it simply by changing the software.

At the beginning there was 1 people. He voted between himself to start coding Duniter. People gathered around his project and the community started.

[demo]

@Nartagnan

@demo

He probalby is doing the same to other developers too, probably also not.

I have no proof of it, and knowing how much he want help I doubt a lot.

@demo

You should put all the above questions into a VOTE.

It is a kind of vote : you can vote YES by entering the community, and voting NO by leaving it.
If 51% of the members decide to change, they can do it simply by changing the software.

At the beginning there was 1 people. He voted between himself to start coding Duniter. People gathered around his project and the community started.

The voting procedure should be permamanet. You should let people change their mind. It is not fair to vote once, then not to be allowed to vote for the same subject again.

The rule that requires 51% is not voted, and you do not allow people to change their mind.
Some people believe it is unfair the 51% of the people to claim that their decisions should be valid for 100% of the time.

[matograine]

Maybe, create a place “on the internet” for this project ? To gather informations and interested people ?

No dash-forum, no duniter-forum, no pivx-forum, no what-you-want-currency-forum. This project’s forum. It is the first step to create a community - a place where only go interested people.

Here, Duniter has some rules - maybe not perfect, but it is still the beginning - and you come and say “let’s vote to change the rules”. I want to really test Duniter’s rules before choosing if it is right or not, OR testing two different systems at the same time.

You won’t make Duniter match your ideas, so, try to make your ideas become real, and begin by gathering people : where you live, on a website/forum, etc.

It took @Galuel 9 years to see his ideas become real. So be patient. And if you think that Duniter is a good codebase, please, help yourself and modify it - that’s the point of free software.

[demo]

@matograine

Maybe, create a place “on the internet” for this project ? To gather informations and interested people ?

No dash-forum, no duniter-forum, no pivx-forum, no what-you-want-currency-forum. This project’s forum. It is the first step to create a community - a place where only go interested people.

Here, Duniter has some rules - maybe not perfect, but it is still the beginning - and you come and say “let’s vote to change the rules”. I want to really test Duniter’s rules before choosing if it is right or not, OR testing two different systems at the same time.

You won’t make Duniter match your ideas, so, try to make your ideas become real, and begin by gathering people : where you live, on a website/forum, etc.

It took Galuel 9 years to see his ideas become real. So be patient. And if you think that Duniter is a good codebase, please, help yourself and modify it - that’s the point of free software.

@Galuel was also happy when they banned me for one year, here in this very forum.
And @inso too.

[matograine]

Well, maybe for the reason I said :

Duniter has some rules - maybe not perfect, but it is still the beginning - and you come and say “let’s vote to change the rules"

[demo]

@matograine

Well, maybe for the reason I said :

Duniter has some rules - maybe not perfect, but it is still the beginning - and you come and say “let’s vote to change the rules"

It is not a matter of rules.
It is a matter of free speech,
Free speech has no rules. It is free.
This is a forum, not a place where the code of duniter is implemented.

[matograine]

Well, have you read what is written at the top of the page ?

Ce forum n’est pas un lieu pour débattre d’autres domaines que le développement informatique des logiciels de l’écosystème Duniter.

Ce forum n’est pas non plus un lieu pour faire la promotion d’autres systèmes ou exprimer son rejet du concept.

Someone pays for this forum. It is a private place, like a shopping mall - anyone can enter a shopping mall, but you cannot do or say what you want. Because it is private.

Public space, for public (aka free) speech, is “on the internet” or on the public streets and places, not precisely here. Create your own place, blog, forum, what you like.

Here is a place to discuss about Duniter, not about other projects. Voting for a proposal that noone will implement is not how you make things happen.

[demo]

@matograine

Well, have you read what is written at the top of the page ?

Ce forum n’est pas un lieu pour débattre d’autres domaines que le développement informatique des logiciels de l’écosystème Duniter.

Ce forum n’est pas non plus un lieu pour faire la promotion d’autres systèmes ou exprimer son rejet du concept.

Someone pays for this forum. It is a private place, like a shopping mall - anyone can enter a shopping mall, but you cannot do or say what you want. Because it is private.

Public space, for public (aka free) speech, is “on the internet” or on the public streets and places, not precisely here. Create your own place, blog, forum, what you like.

Here is a place to discuss about Duniter, not about other projects. Voting for a proposal that noone will implement is not how you make things happen.

I do not accept rules that are not voted.
This is my rule.

So the universal dividend is a private issue???
This is ridiculous!!!

[matograine]

I do not accept rules that are not voted.
This is my rule.

Then you don’t have to complain if administrators don’t accept people who don’t follow the rules, you said it :

C est universel seulement pour ceux qui veulent participer et qui respectent les règles communément acceptées.

also :

So the universal dividend is a private issue???
This is ridiculous!!!

I don’t write about Duniter rules, I write about this forum’s rules.

[demo]

@matograine

Then you don’t have to complain if administrators don’t accept people who don’t follow the rules, you said it :

C est universel seulement pour ceux qui veulent participer et qui respectent les règles communément acceptées.

Votre regles ne sont pas communément acceptées.
Nobody voted about them.

[Nartagnan]

The problem of the vote is the electoral roll (electoral list)
Who can vote for the 1st rule ? Do you need unanimity ? Of 7 billions of humans ?

What would be the list for the opening of a forum ? And someone like me, who discovered the project 2 years ago, have I the right to refuse things decided at the beginning because I was not part of it ?

[demo]

@Nartagnan

The problem of the vote is the electoral roll (electoral list)
Who can vote for the 1st rule ? Do you need unanimity ? Of 7 billions of humans ?

The first rule will be voted by the first participants.
Then everyone, both old and new participants can re-vote and change their mind regarding this first rule and the following ones.

[demo]

@Nartagnan

What would be the list for the opening of a forum ? And someone like me, who discovered the project 2 years ago, have I the right to refuse things decided at the beginning because I was not part of it ?

Of course you have the right to vote against already established rules, especially in case these rules are voted by a majority of people who are now dead or inactives.

[Nartagnan]

That is exactly what happen here. Someone opened this forum by voting between him and himself. He choose some rules for this forum and everybody came after that.

[demo]

@Nartagnan

That is exactly what happen here. Someone opened this forum by voting between him and himself. He choose some rules for this forum and everybody came after that.

This is maybe fair in case of a private forum.
But a forum that deals with a universal dividend, it is ridiculus to behave like a private one, and not accepting new rules to be voted.

[Inso]

Omg tell me this is not happening again.

Objection in the model of the web of trust of Ucoin

Recursive…

Please stop now, remain on technical talk or the topic will have to be locked.

Its really annoying, it generates too much noise for the development team.