Why only 1 UD per year?

@Galuel
Why did you choose 1 unit per year for UD’s?
If more and more goods and services are being measured in UD units, prices will end up in 0.0001 ranges, which is rather confusing, or is this being solved the other way around with prefixes such as dUD, cUD, mUD, μUD ?

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There is no choice of 1 unit per year for UD. You can have a UD = 1000000000000 units / second, there is absolutely no problem with that.

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I would suggest to count UD in days.
Compared to the current money supply one UD would be currently then around 5-10 dollar, which is also around an 1 hour of average work salary. So the UD would have some relation to time.

To make people understand what fair distributed money is about I would encourage to display the currency by default in UDs.

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This topic, unfortunately in french, ( Améliorations possibles? ), says that ucoin already allows this, it depends on the parameters you choose when initializing a money.
And that to have 10% growth per year with a daily dividend, it should grow approximately 0,0261158% per day

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@Galuel Parfait, merci beaucoup!
@smoul I knew why I was interested in a translation of that topic :wink:
@Arcurus I like the UD as default idea.
I have another suggestion, since I have been in Marokko they have an exchange rate of 1 to 10 for the euro, which I quite liked.
So 1 day of UD is 100Units. This has the advantage that you usually set prices only as whole numbers without decimal points, as of current economy volume.

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One of the beauty of the UD is that it is more easy to evaluate values with a weekly or monthly amount of 1 UD. In France ,where incomes are monthly, people will understand perfectly what is 1 per month.

So ucoin can do that with a increase rate c of 0.8 % per month. So all prices will be fraction of 1. But you can not limit how many units contains 1.

So 100 units per day is 3000 per month.
It is very hard to estimate values with 3000 units per month because it correspond to nothing except for people who have an income of 3000 euros per month.

Most importantly, you can not make price less than 1/3000.

So you break the rule 2 of the RTM that say that I should be able to estimate any value as I want.

You can divide your “units” by 100 to have new “cents” units which is more complicated again and confuse completely with raw units of the currency.

A discussion about Sakia display of little floating numbers has estimate that mathematically it is useless to go under 10^-6.

All we have to do in my opinion is to find an simple and elegant way of display fraction of UD in clients like cDU or mDU. Ho, it is done already ! Thank you Sakia ! :wink:

¨normal¨ people will not understand cUD or mUD. Currently the display in Sakia is very confusing with displaying dUDs…

I agree with Samuels suggestion of displaying UD in 100 Units per day, so that in normal usecases you dont have to go below 1. If they get dayly 100 UD units, people can relate to it and can count on it.
One month is a very long period to wait. Technically UD can be payed out easily per day, or even better per block.

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Just to be clear about 1 point: we shoud differenciate money creation frequency (for example money is created daily, weekly, monthly or yearly) and UD reference unit.

The frequency of money creation is what uCoin do and is parameterized at the launching of the currency and will never change thereafter. Also, there are good reasons given in the RTM for this frenquency to be yearly or even seasonly, why not monthly: notably the fact that we don’t create values in few minutes. We need time for this.

The UD reference unit however is just a convention: the UD creation might be yearly in uCoin and we could still say that UD = the equivalent money created per hundredth of day. So this way we have 100 UD per day as display, but the money would still be created yearly. We could call this base 100thUDday, by opposition to mthUD which the monthly UD, and UD the yearly UD.

What is fun here, is that each post is very hard to understand for “normal people”, even if I don’t know what a normal people is. :wink:

When a normal people has just understood what is the UD, which is the amount of money each member create periodically, now let’s try to make him understand there is another UD… What ? Yes, the display UD ??? No not the same interval in time ???

I propose that @Arcurus or @Samuel go the full way in their ideas, by describing a new referential for example.

I have added Referential infos in the informations tab in future Sakia version, and may be it can help you create a new one.

Name: Name of the referential in the selector.
Units: text displayed after values.
Formula: Formula to transform the internal value in the new referential.
Description: An explanation of what is this referential and his purpose.

With enough informations, a new referential can be created and explain in clients.

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See here for some discussions about the referential: https://github.com/ucoin-io/sakia/issues/188

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so if some new member joined he has to wait one year at worst before he get one UD?
That does not sound very practical.

Even if values are created over a certain time period, for sure they are not created at a certain time point in a year.
Values are created continuously distributed over a year, so why not give the UD continuously over one year?

thx, added my suggestion :slightly_smiling:

I’ve not said I suggested to create money yearly, I prefer to smooth it by monthly/weekly issuance.

What I meant with my comment is that it is not “super highly urgent” to create money, you can still find it without creating it and still you will have your 40+ years of money creation. That’s the most important.

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why not per day or per block?

Per day and per block are technically possible.

But…

Per day is a stable interval known by all members and easily understandable.

Per block is an unpredictable random interval, unknown by non-geek members and machine centric.
I don’t see how useful it is for humans…

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humans would most likely not know that it is per block. they would see a ¨steady¨ creation of coins.
they would know that they get 1 UDD per day in round about 10 minute intervals or 1 minute if we happen we to choose shorter blocktimes :slightly_smiling:

per block is just the shortest interval we technically have.

Yes, so there is no reason to make it per block :smile:

per block would be a more instant feeling. you sign up, you get near instantly something, the same feeling like why real time games are so fascinating :slightly_smiling:

It would also give the false feeling that it’s the process of mining blocks which gets money into the system. I don’t feel like it’s a good idea. I like the fact that uCoin tries to automate things on a human-time scale ! :slight_smile:

That would only hold true for techsavy people using already bitcoin and co, but not for the ordinary person just using it as a normal money. Here I like the idea of realtime issuance and gameification factor, since life can be over at any time. So in my point of view realtime is a much better definition of human-time scale.
Therefore my favorite:
Per block issuance and displaying in the client per second.

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OK I understand you guys might feel living because each second you create $0.00000028$% of new money.

The problem is: it is actually much harder to compute UD with a non-determinated frequency than with a determinated one, because we cannot use the super-easy formula $UD_{monthly} = \exp^{ln(1,0922)/12}$.

Hopefully, Sakia can display it in seconds (milliseconds ?!) with the exact same formula :slight_smile: